Project and Time management in WHMCS

mikho

Hello!

as many of you already know, I'm going solo as a consultant (don't worry, mrvm will stay online) and I'm looking for ways to track my work hours and in the end bill the customer for the time put in.

I've looked at many different help desk systems and many of them start around $25-30/month if you want to enable Time Management.

Since I have experience with WHMCS, I've also looked at their Project Management addon, https://www.whmcs.com/project-management/ where you also can track time.

Have anyone here used it? The number of screenshots on the WHMCS page is not enough to build an opinion if it's good enough or even bad.

it is a $99,95 one-time price for the addon, it's not the end of the world. I've spent more on dedicated servers that have done nothing for a year before I canceled them.

But I would really LOVE feedback on this add-on.

Thank you for reading

Ympker

Good luck with your new business mate

I used this in the past (free plan) : https://www.timeandbill.de/en/

Not bad imho. Not a WHMCS plugin though.

mikho

@Ympker I’ve used toggl so far for the work hours I’ve done.
And already for the second customer I feel like it is ”to much” for to little effort.
Especially as I can import the data from toggl to my invoice system but only the hours, not what I’ve done.

InceptionHosting

I am pretty sure you can get the project management plugin to test on a whmcs dev license, I seem to recall them offering this to someone publicly on WHT many moons ago

mikho

@InceptionHosting said:
I am pretty sure you can get the project management plugin to test on a whmcs dev license, I seem to recall them offering this to someone publicly on WHT many moons ago

Will ask in a ticket!

Chievo

Clockify free app? Thanks to @bikegremlin it works pretty fine (yes not in whcms but it is free)

bikegremlin

@Chievo said:
Clockify free app? Thanks to @bikegremlin it works pretty fine (yes not in whcms but it is free)

MADE IN SERBIA!

mikho

@bikegremlin said:

@Chievo said:
Clockify free app? Thanks to @bikegremlin it works pretty fine (yes not in whcms but it is free)

MADE IN SERBIA!

Had a quick look and it it seems similar to toggl, perhaps more features compared to the free version.

@InceptionHosting : they replied that the ”only” offer their 30-day money back guarantuee.

InceptionHosting

@mikho said:

@bikegremlin said:

@Chievo said:
Clockify free app? Thanks to @bikegremlin it works pretty fine (yes not in whcms but it is free)

MADE IN SERBIA!

Had a quick look and it it seems similar to toggl, perhaps more features compared to the free version.

@InceptionHosting : they replied that the ”only” offer their 30-day money back guarantuee.

Well that’s still pretty good I guess.

flips

I'm testing Clockify these days, haven't gotten around to the part where I use the reports for billing yet ...

willie

1) I'd stay away from whmcs in general

2) I tend to want to use org mode for everything (org-mode.org) and it has features for that, but it helps to already be an emacs weenie if you want to use it.

3) there are a bunch of different free alternatives that i haven't studied but there's lots out there, including the old pencil and paper method, though it's hard to stick to that. I don't know if the electronic methods are better.

4) I'm generally happiest billing a flat 40 hours/week or billing at a weekly rate instead of hourly, rather than time tracking. Idea was based on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4805091 It works and clients have been happy with it, though i haven't had the nerve to try charging 5 figures per week .

mikho

@willie said:
1) I'd stay away from whmcs in general

please elaborate? It is something I'm used to and I could use the built-in invoices and support function.

@willie said:
2) I tend to want to use org mode for everything (org-mode.org) and it has features for that, but it helps to already be an emacs weenie if you want to use it.

I'm not That would probably take longer to learn than the number of hours that I want to put in.

@willie said:
3) there are a bunch of different free alternatives that i haven't studied but there's lots out there, including the old pencil and paper method, though it's hard to stick to that. I don't know if the electronic methods are better.

I've tried toggl, which basically does what I need and currently testing clockify (as suggested in this thread)

@willie said:
4) I'm generally happiest billing a flat 40 hours/week or billing at a weekly rate instead of hourly, rather than time tracking. Idea was based on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4805091 It works and clients have been happy with it, though i haven't had the nerve to try charging 5 figures per week .

I'm not a programmer, I'm Infrastructure and I will have more than one customer "active" at the same time.
since I will be running everything by myself, I will need to take care of support cases and the odd call about something that "just came in".

The best option is of course to have a flat-billing/week, but personally, I need to keep track that I don't work too much for a client and in that case, charge to little.

willie

1) just the usual drama like cpanel/DA etc. If you're already using whm then sure, whatever is easiest, I just wouldn't want to get even more deeply locked into it.

2, 3) It is pretty easy to get started with both emacs and org-mode, and gradually use more and more of it, but maybe the project planning stuff would take a while to get to that way. Still, there's so much stuff out there, like maybe in the Drupal repository?

4) Yeah understandable I guess.

Ympker

What about selling prepaid support hours, then? In the Freelancer/WebDev communities I am in many people do that (me included). One of my main clients usually prepays me 10 hours to manage her website and I keep track via excel notifying them when time's up. Usually, then they will just stock up time again. I don't use any panel rn , though. Just invoicing manually. Pretty sure Blesta could create a custom product like working hours, though.

Abdullah

something like https://myw.pt/devops does...

you can also add something like what bobcares does.
whmcs with custom addon for work log
allows track & log time spent per client each month.

I think this addon: https://marketplace.whmcs.com/product/1646-time-tracking-retainer-billing

mikho

@Ympker said:
What about selling prepaid support hours, then? In the Freelancer/WebDev communities I am in many people do that (me included). One of my main clients usually prepays me 10 hours to manage her website and I keep track via excel notifying them when time's up. Usually, then they will just stock up time again. I don't use any panel rn , though. Just invoicing manually. Pretty sure Blesta could create a custom product like working hours, though.

Pretty much the setup I will do.
The client commits to a minimum number of hours per month and depending on that, the hourly price is decided.

The hours don’t roll over each month/quarter.
Meaning I get paid the minimum amount even if the client has no work needed to be done.
The upside for the client is that they get priority over the odd-hour clients without an agreement in place.

In most cases the minimum hours are already covered with the day-to-day job I do for the customer.

mikho

@Abdullah said:
something like https://myw.pt/devops does...

you can also add something like what bobcares does.
whmcs with custom addon for work log
allows track & log time spent per client each month.

I think this addon: https://marketplace.whmcs.com/product/1646-time-tracking-retainer-billing

Looks very much like the Project addon but without the Project management part.

rcy026

Doesn't Invoice Ninja have timetracking? I've personally only used it for pure invoicing a while ago, but I'm pretty sure it had timetracking to.

mikho

@rcy026 said:
Doesn't Invoice Ninja have timetracking? I've personally only used it for pure invoicing a while ago, but I'm pretty sure it had timetracking to.

Even at the enterprise level it looks interesting.
Need to read up on this and try it out.

rcy026

@mikho said:

@rcy026 said:
Doesn't Invoice Ninja have timetracking? I've personally only used it for pure invoicing a while ago, but I'm pretty sure it had timetracking to.

Even at the enterprise level it looks interesting.
Need to read up on this and try it out.

There is an open source version at invoiceninja.org if you prefer selfhosted, and I think it's available in Softaculous as well.
I do not have a lot of experience with it so I'm sure there are some drawbacks I haven't ran into yet, but everytime I use it I'm like "why isn't everyone using this?"

mikho

@rcy026 said:

@mikho said:

@rcy026 said:
Doesn't Invoice Ninja have timetracking? I've personally only used it for pure invoicing a while ago, but I'm pretty sure it had timetracking to.

Even at the enterprise level it looks interesting.
Need to read up on this and try it out.

There is an open source version at invoiceninja.org if you prefer selfhosted, and I think it's available in Softaculous as well.
I do not have a lot of experience with it so I'm sure there are some drawbacks I haven't ran into yet, but everytime I use it I'm like "why isn't everyone using this?"

Did you see if the open source alternative had all features from Enterprise or was it equal to the free version?

Mason

@mikho said:

@rcy026 said:

@mikho said:

@rcy026 said:
Doesn't Invoice Ninja have timetracking? I've personally only used it for pure invoicing a while ago, but I'm pretty sure it had timetracking to.

Even at the enterprise level it looks interesting.
Need to read up on this and try it out.

There is an open source version at invoiceninja.org if you prefer selfhosted, and I think it's available in Softaculous as well.
I do not have a lot of experience with it so I'm sure there are some drawbacks I haven't ran into yet, but everytime I use it I'm like "why isn't everyone using this?"

Did you see if the open source alternative had all features from Enterprise or was it equal to the free version?

Seems to include all the Pro/Enterprise features. I remember looking into it a bit in the past for some freelance work but never spun it up.

https://www.invoiceninja.com/faqs/does-the-self-host-version-include-all-proenterprise-advanced-features/

mikho

I had a quick run with the demo and it is powerful, with loads of features.

The UI wasn’t that self-explanatory but I think one would easily learn it after some time.

Will have another, deeper dive into the demo and pass judgement after that.

rcy026

@mikho said:

@rcy026 said:

@mikho said:

@rcy026 said:
Doesn't Invoice Ninja have timetracking? I've personally only used it for pure invoicing a while ago, but I'm pretty sure it had timetracking to.

Even at the enterprise level it looks interesting.
Need to read up on this and try it out.

There is an open source version at invoiceninja.org if you prefer selfhosted, and I think it's available in Softaculous as well.
I do not have a lot of experience with it so I'm sure there are some drawbacks I haven't ran into yet, but everytime I use it I'm like "why isn't everyone using this?"

Did you see if the open source alternative had all features from Enterprise or was it equal to the free version?

https://www.invoiceninja.com/knowledge-base/what-are-the-differences-between-the-hosted-and-self-hosted-versions/

"All Pro and Enterprise features from the hosted app are included in the open-source code. We offer a $30 per year white-label license to remove our branding for personal use."

seriesn

@Jord maybe you got something up your sleeve?

flips

Usage wise Clockify has been nice for my needs. As I was looking into exporting/getting it into my invoicing and accounting system, I discovered that the free tier I'm on (with the Danish system xena.biz) is ending soon, so now I'm going to have to look into accounting software again. (My company is so small I won't pay a lot for accounting software. I could go back to GNU Cash, but I'm checking options like Akaunting and others, if I find anything nice.)

Chievo

@flips said:
Usage wise Clockify has been nice for my needs. As I was looking into exporting/getting it into my invoicing and accounting system, I discovered that the free tier I'm on (with the Danish system xena.biz) is ending soon, so now I'm going to have to look into accounting software again. (My company is so small I won't pay a lot for accounting software. I could go back to GNU Cash, but I'm checking options like Akaunting and others, if I find anything nice.)

I have had a similar problem and @mikho has told me about bokio and it is really nice option to use . check it ( sorry for derailing the thread)

flips

@Chievo said: I have had a similar problem and @mikho has told me about bokio and it is really nice option to use . check it ( sorry for derailing the thread)

Hopefully will not derail further (I could start my own topic), just wanted to mention that Bokio is only available for companies in Sweden and the UK for now.

Jord

@seriesn said:
@Jord maybe you got something up your sleeve?

Thanks for the mention sir, this is something we are looking at developing.

Bochi

As no one mentioned it until now: you could also have a look at Kimai.
It's open source, really easy to work with and gives you nice reports and summaries for invoicing.

PureVoltage

Personally I would avoid the WHMCS one I found it quite useless. At least for what we wanted to use it for.
We had plans on using it for remote hands work for our techs in off site locations for clients. However the client side where they could enter details was just useless and couldn't put in proper tasks.

If using it for yourself it might be alright, however these days a phone app or something easier would be much better for most tasks to track your time.