@AuroraZero said:
YOU can choose what topics you want to join. YOU can choose if you join in the banter. YOU want no banter skip over it and read the parts that interest you. There are all kinds of posts here, some technical and some that are meant to be funny. Just like the outside world.
On the surface, this sounds reasonable, but actually what this translates to is wanting to perpetuate the status quo.
Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are male, female, gay, straight, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change.
Would you be as equally cool with an overt racist posting on here, saying "Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are white, black, brown, pink, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change."
Personally, I think the vast majority of us would consider that to be an inappropriate stance to take for racism. If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
@AuroraZero said:
YOU can choose what topics you want to join. YOU can choose if you join in the banter. YOU want no banter skip over it and read the parts that interest you. There are all kinds of posts here, some technical and some that are meant to be funny. Just like the outside world.
On the surface, this sounds reasonable, but actually what this translates to is wanting to perpetuate the status quo.
The status quo is nice. It is an actual modus vivendi based on liberal thinking implying toleration.
Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are male, female, gay, straight, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change.
Would you be as equally cool with an overt racist posting on here, saying "Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are white, black, brown, pink, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change."
Personally, I think the vast majority of us would consider that to be an inappropriate stance to take for racism. If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
There is nothing racist in "take it or leave it". It means tolerate one another, or find something extreme dedicated just for you. Nobody should change nobody = take it or leave it.
This is like going to a fast-food. We have a burger, this is the burger, take it or leave it. If you want to change it, it's not acceptable, we will not change the burger recipe for you. The chef will be offended in doing so.
@root said:
There is nothing racist in "take it or leave it". It means tolerate one another, or find something extreme dedicated just for you. Nobody should change nobody = take it or leave it.
My point was that we wouldn't tolerate people being openly racist here, even if they justified it as "oh, this is just me being me, i don't really mean any offence, you don't have to read it, move along and read something else".
@root said:
There is nothing racist in "take it or leave it". It means tolerate one another, or find something extreme dedicated just for you. Nobody should change nobody = take it or leave it.
My point was that we wouldn't tolerate people being openly racist here, even if they justified it as "oh, this is just me being me, i don't really mean any offence, you don't have to read it, move along and read something else".
If a person is racist, it's their problem. But if that racism manifests into offence, then we have a problem not because of identity, but because of behaviour ("don't be a dick" rule).
@root said:
There is nothing racist in "take it or leave it". It means tolerate one another, or find something extreme dedicated just for you. Nobody should change nobody = take it or leave it.
My point was that we wouldn't tolerate people being openly racist here, even if they justified it as "oh, this is just me being me, i don't really mean any offence, you don't have to read it, move along and read something else".
If a person is racist, it's their problem. But if that racism manifests into offence, then we have a problem not because of identity, but because of behaviour ("don't be a dick" rule).
So, to repeat the last part of my comment: If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
@root said:
There is nothing racist in "take it or leave it". It means tolerate one another, or find something extreme dedicated just for you. Nobody should change nobody = take it or leave it.
My point was that we wouldn't tolerate people being openly racist here, even if they justified it as "oh, this is just me being me, i don't really mean any offence, you don't have to read it, move along and read something else".
If a person is racist, it's their problem. But if that racism manifests into offence, then we have a problem not because of identity, but because of behaviour ("don't be a dick" rule).
So, to repeat the last part of my comment: If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
@ralf - I think the original question was do we as a generally male community say things that are not overtly sexist, but may be offensive to women who are members here. It was just a question that was raised by Mason to be considered, @AuroraZero chimed in with his opinion, nothing more. There is no question that the community and staff are not very tolerant of racist or sexist comments directed at any member. Personally I do not think that @AuroraZero was saying we should be sexist on purpose, more that there was no need to change/restrict the community speech because women may be present here.
I think there are multiple instances, which could make some posts more or less offensive.
Language Barrier
Geopolitical backgrounds
Age
Industry
may more....
Let me explain, what i mean with these points:
For me, as a non-native English speaker, there are times, where i think in Swiss German and write in English. After rereading, it 3h later i often think: "Damn i am an Idiot, why i wrote it that way"
The background of a person where he may have grown up, or lives has from my view also a big influence of the used Language and the behavior.
For example.
"Du Trottel, besch anad Zdumm zum schissa?" (Swiss German)
"Du Idiot, bist du eingentlich zum dumm um zu scheissen?" (German)
"You idiot, are you actually too stupid to shit?" (English)
This sentence can be used in different situations/moods from a Vocal point of view, but if i write this in a Forum, Chat or what else, there is no way to determine if the person means this as a Joke, or in full seriousness.
Here, where I live, it is to 90% meant as a joke. In here plays also the age and the working industry a big role from my POV.
A person working in a craft professions like roofer, mason or what ever has another language than the same guy from the same Street in an Office Job.
For the Gender Drama which has come up the last few years.
I will not say anything to that, as my English is for sure not good enough to bring my POV in the right words to a letter.
@FrankZ said: @ralf - I think the original question was do we as a generally male community say things that are not overtly sexist, but may be offensive to women who are members here. It was just a question that was raised by Mason to be considered, @AuroraZero chimed in with his opinion, nothing more. There is no question that the community and staff are not very tolerant of racist or sexist comments directed at any member. Personally I do not think that @AuroraZero was saying we should be sexist on purpose, more that there was no need to change/restrict the community speech because women may be present here.
I think the rule "don't be a dick" covers it all pretty nicely.
You can't please everyone no matter what you do - so it is up to LESbians to determine what the right merit is, and where the line is between the freedom of expression and being a dick.
Regarding culture and "abuse" - this video is quite fun, if not educational - how reddit political correct moderation can go wrong:
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
@AuroraZero said:
YOU can choose what topics you want to join. YOU can choose if you join in the banter. YOU want no banter skip over it and read the parts that interest you. There are all kinds of posts here, some technical and some that are meant to be funny. Just like the outside world.
On the surface, this sounds reasonable, but actually what this translates to is wanting to perpetuate the status quo.
Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are male, female, gay, straight, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change.
Would you be as equally cool with an overt racist posting on here, saying "Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are white, black, brown, pink, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change."
Personally, I think the vast majority of us would consider that to be an inappropriate stance to take for racism. If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
This right here is why I went back to my cave for so long. All I was doing was stating my options and it gets picked apart like an overdone chicken. Some understood what I was saying but some did not.
I am not sure everyone can be pleased. I do know this though I control me and that is all and no matter what I will continue to be me. If the establishment has a problem with me they can take the appropriate actions. Has happened before and I am sure it will again, until that time join in discussions with me or not that is your choice.
This right here is why I went back to my cave for so long. All I was doing was stating my options and it gets picked apart like an overdone chicken. Some understood what I was saying but some did not.
I am not sure everyone can be pleased. I do know this though I control me and that is all and no matter what I will continue to be me. If the establishment has a problem with me they can take the appropriate actions. Has happened before and I am sure it will again, until that time join in discussions with me or not that is your choice.
Just a different opinion, I'm glad he did because ( I'm pretty sure ) I misunderstood what you were saying but @FrankZ's version was clearer and had the benefit of my agreeing with it ( and likely with you ).
@AuroraZero said: This right here is why I went back to my cave for so long. All I was doing was stating my options and it gets picked apart like an overdone chicken. Some understood what I was saying but some did not.
I hope that you did not feel my comment above was in any way a negative assessment of the comment you made previously. To be clear it was not. I was just trying to get @ralf to see your comment in the light that I felt that you meant it. My hope is that you will continue to do you, and if so we will all be better off for it.
@bikegremlin - I am not sure why your comment was directed at me as so far I have not offered my opinion on this subject.
@AuroraZero said: This right here is why I went back to my cave for so long. All I was doing was stating my options and it gets picked apart like an overdone chicken. Some understood what I was saying but some did not.
I hope that you did not feel my comment above was in any way a negative assessment of the comment you made previously. To be clear it was not. I was just trying to get @ralf to see your comment in the light that I felt that you meant it. My hope is that you will continue to do you, and if so we will all be better off for it.
Nah man I was just trying to clarify my thoughts a little better was all. I have learned not to take myself or life too seriously. What will be will be and some think everything is offensive. I don't have the time or energy for that anymore. If you go through life looking for what you perceive are problems that is exactly what you will find. I think some people need to let things go and just be themselves. Stop worrying about what others think and do you.
The world is made up of all kinds and in order for us to work together as a team we need to let these things go and concentrate on what brings us together. I don't care if you identify as hermaphroditic pond scum it makes no difference to me. I will respect you and invite you to join in whatever is going on at the time.
The sexism, racism, plagiarism and what not do not enter my thoughts. Want to be a friend then by all means be a friend and if you don't that is cool as well. Just keep in mind we all are here for same purpose, we love idling servers.
Oh and before someone says anything yes behind the Yeti facade I front there is a man that feels and has emotions and opinions. I don't let them out here often because I believe it is important for things to be light and, for lack of a better term, fun for all.
@AuroraZero said:
YOU can choose what topics you want to join. YOU can choose if you join in the banter. YOU want no banter skip over it and read the parts that interest you. There are all kinds of posts here, some technical and some that are meant to be funny. Just like the outside world.
On the surface, this sounds reasonable, but actually what this translates to is wanting to perpetuate the status quo.
Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are male, female, gay, straight, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change.
Would you be as equally cool with an overt racist posting on here, saying "Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are white, black, brown, pink, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change."
Personally, I think the vast majority of us would consider that to be an inappropriate stance to take for racism. If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
This right here is why I went back to my cave for so long. All I was doing was stating my options and it gets picked apart like an overdone chicken. Some understood what I was saying but some did not.
Firstly, an apology. I'm still in the middle of COVID and my attention span isn't much more than a couple of minutes on anything, right now, so maybe I've not picked up on subtle nuance in what you were saying, but it seems weird that your reaction is to get so defensive and talk about going back into your cave. FWIW, I don't think you should not say things you agree with, I was merely trying to seek clarification on what you wrote.
Whether it was your intention or not, to me it read as: I have every right to express my view in any way I see fit, and if you are offended that is your problem, don't read it. I wont ask you to change either, so my view is OK.
Now, in many ways, I agree with the general sentiment that people should be able to say what they want (but I would also add the strong proviso that they are not trying to cause offense) and others should in general be more tolerant of what others say (because things people get upset by are often not intended to cause offense).
But your statement jumped out of me for two reasons. Firstly, it was in the middle of the conversation about whether sexist behaviour is OK or not, and secondly, in response to that it seemed to just be a statement of intent: "I am going to say whatever I want, and nothing and nobody is going to change that."
My argument was simply that this is exactly the stance racists used to take in years gone by, and yet now people almost universally agree this is unacceptable.
I am not sure everyone can be pleased. I do know this though I control me and that is all and no matter what I will continue to be me. If the establishment has a problem with me they can take the appropriate actions. Has happened before and I am sure it will again, until that time join in discussions with me or not that is your choice.
FWIW, maybe I'm missing some big context here. I know practically nothing about you, and I haven't seen anything that you've said that's been even slightly offensive, but then I've barely been reading anything for a week because of being ill, so maybe something was said that I've overlooked.
In fact, I took it as a general defence of the right to be sexist. It's clear from everyone else's responses that I've misinterpreted you, and probably also didn't express what I was trying to say very clearly.
IMO, there's a huge difference between joking about "Slavic engineering" or "women drivers," and abusing someone deliberately, directly, or calling for a final solution.
I lean a lot more towards greater freedom of expression - so idiots can be ridiculed, rather than censored.
And besides, I believe that Carthage must be destroyed!
@AuroraZero said:
YOU can choose what topics you want to join. YOU can choose if you join in the banter. YOU want no banter skip over it and read the parts that interest you. There are all kinds of posts here, some technical and some that are meant to be funny. Just like the outside world.
On the surface, this sounds reasonable, but actually what this translates to is wanting to perpetuate the status quo.
Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are male, female, gay, straight, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change.
Would you be as equally cool with an overt racist posting on here, saying "Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are white, black, brown, pink, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change."
Personally, I think the vast majority of us would consider that to be an inappropriate stance to take for racism. If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
This right here is why I went back to my cave for so long. All I was doing was stating my options and it gets picked apart like an overdone chicken. Some understood what I was saying but some did not.
Firstly, an apology. I'm still in the middle of COVID and my attention span isn't much more than a couple of minutes on anything, right now, so maybe I've picked up on subtle nuance in what you were saying, but it seems weird that your reaction is to get so defensive and talk about going back into your cave. FWIW, I don't think you should not say things you agree with, I was merely trying to seek clarification on what you wrote.
Whether it was your intention or not, to me it read as: I have every right to express my view in any way I see fit, and if you are offended that is your problem, don't read it. I wont ask you to change either, so my view is OK.
Now, in many ways, I agree with the general sentiment that people should be able to say what they want (but I would also add the strong proviso that they are not trying to cause offense) and others should in general be more tolerant of what others say (because things people get upset by are often not intended to cause offense).
But your statement jumped out of me for two reasons. Firstly, it was in the middle of the conversation about whether sexist behaviour is OK or not, and secondly, in response to that it seemed to just be a statement of intent: "I am going to say whatever I want, and nothing and nobody is going to change that."
My argument was simply that this is exactly the stance racists used to take in years gone by, and yet now people almost universally agree this is unacceptable.
I am not sure everyone can be pleased. I do know this though I control me and that is all and no matter what I will continue to be me. If the establishment has a problem with me they can take the appropriate actions. Has happened before and I am sure it will again, until that time join in discussions with me or not that is your choice.
FWIW, maybe I'm missing some big context here. I know practically nothing about you, and I haven't seen anything that you've said that's been even slightly offensive, but then I've barely been reading anything for a week because of being ill, so maybe something was said that I've overlooked.
In fact, I took it as a general defence of the right to be sexist. It's clear from everyone else's responses that I've misinterpreted you, and probably also didn't express what I was trying to say very clearly.
Nah no offense taken at all. I was just trying to point out that this is one of many reasons why I just lurked for so long. The right to say what I want should be a fundamental right for anyone that is willing to deal with the consequences of what they said.
To be very clear here I don't condone sexism, racism, or anything like that and if I offend someone I am man enough to apologize. There is a big difference between banter, aka shitposts and being racist, sexist, etc....
In summation I have no problem with anyone. I am not easily offended. No apologies are required and everything is as it was before the discussion happened. This is how it should be discussing a topic, no matter the context, and not being offended. Just genuine thoughts and opinions without fear of ridicule and hate.
Seems simple doesn't it? I just can't figure out why not many do it.
Here is a comment from my wife after reading this thread from this comment on
Thinking of women as being all the same in regard to what they might find offensive is just stupid. Women, just like you men all think differently about things. In my opinion @AuroraZero was closest to right, you do you, if I don't like it I will scroll by it. Or maybe I am just old.
To be clear when she says "maybe I am just old" she is not that old and quite a bit younger then me who by contrast is old.
EDIT: I have removed "from @AlwaysSkint 's comment on" and replaced it with a link to the comment where she started reading this thread to be more clear.
@FrankZ said:
Here is a comment from my wife after reading this thread from @AlwaysSkint 's comment on.
Thinking of women as being all the same in regard to what they might find offensive is just stupid. Women, just like you men all think differently about things. In my opinion @AuroraZero was closest to right, you do you, if I don't like it I will scroll by it. Or maybe I am just old.
To be clear when she says "maybe I am just old" she is not that old and quite a bit younger then me who by contrast is old.
@bikegremlin said: IMO, there's a huge difference between joking about "Slavic engineering" or "women drivers," and abusing someone deliberately, directly, or calling for a final solution.
Just as there's a huge difference between making a joke about someone's nose because of a stereotypical genetic trait and full on misogyny.
@FrankZ said:
Here is a comment from my wife after reading this thread from @AlwaysSkint 's comment on.
Thinking of women as being all the same in regard to what they might find offensive is just stupid. Women, just like you men all think differently about things. In my opinion @AuroraZero was closest to right, you do you, if I don't like it I will scroll by it. Or maybe I am just old.
To be clear when she says "maybe I am just old" she is not that old and quite a bit younger then me who by contrast is old.
Did she imply that men think?!
Yes, it seems she did, but from previous comments she has made, I expect that she meant that we think like children.
@FrankZ said:
Here is a comment from my wife after reading this thread from @AlwaysSkint 's comment on.
Thinking of women as being all the same in regard to what they might find offensive is just stupid. Women, just like you men all think differently about things. In my opinion @AuroraZero was closest to right, you do you, if I don't like it I will scroll by it. Or maybe I am just old.
To be clear when she says "maybe I am just old" she is not that old and quite a bit younger then me who by contrast is old.
Did she imply that men think?!
Yes, it seems she did, but from previous comments she has made, I expect that she meant that we think like children.
When I was a child, I thought as a child, acted like a child and did childish things. Now that I am grown, I think like I am grown, act like a child and still do childish things.
This was the post I was referring to which was quoted by Mason in his post that started this conversation.
@AlwaysSkint said:
Devil's Advocate..
Admittedly IT is a male dominated environment and most forums reflect this, in content, style and character. The OGF must really alienate the "fairer sex" and LES is following suit, from what I read. A balanced approach to the forum, should take gender into account but not pander to the snowflakes.
/Advocate
@FrankZ said: This was the post I was referring to..
Ah, but it didn't come across that way (at least to me) and looked like I was being credited/blamed for ..
Thinking of women as being all the same ..
I seem to be having a issue with my English lately. I've had to clarify my statements for other folks as well.
I'll edit it in an attempt to make it more clear.
Personally I don't think she meant that any one person said that all women think the same. I expect she was just being sexist.
@Nekki said:
Let’s all just agree to not take what happens on LES too seriously and we’ll all be fine.
That includes not taking the really serious people seriously just to see how seriously they take the lack of seriousness.
Seriously though I seriously think that the seriousness of this serious situation is very serious on all serious levels.
I can't seriously believe that after my serious post about not being serious and taking steps to ensure that we're not serious with the most serious of people over the most serious of situations, you ended up seriously considering my words and then sent a seriously serious response.
Comments
On the surface, this sounds reasonable, but actually what this translates to is wanting to perpetuate the status quo.
Would you be as equally cool with an overt racist posting on here, saying "Take it or leave it, does not matter if you are white, black, brown, pink, whatever you identify with in my eyes you are all equal. You are welcome to join in my banter or in any tech discussion I may have, but DON'T ask me to change who and what I am, that's not cool because I will NEVER ask you to change."
Personally, I think the vast majority of us would consider that to be an inappropriate stance to take for racism. If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
The status quo is nice. It is an actual modus vivendi based on liberal thinking implying toleration.
There is nothing racist in "take it or leave it". It means tolerate one another, or find something extreme dedicated just for you. Nobody should change nobody = take it or leave it.
This is like going to a fast-food. We have a burger, this is the burger, take it or leave it. If you want to change it, it's not acceptable, we will not change the burger recipe for you. The chef will be offended in doing so.
My point was that we wouldn't tolerate people being openly racist here, even if they justified it as "oh, this is just me being me, i don't really mean any offence, you don't have to read it, move along and read something else".
If a person is racist, it's their problem. But if that racism manifests into offence, then we have a problem not because of identity, but because of behaviour ("don't be a dick" rule).
So, to repeat the last part of my comment: If so, why should it be any different for sexism?
It's not.
@ralf - I think the original question was do we as a generally male community say things that are not overtly sexist, but may be offensive to women who are members here. It was just a question that was raised by Mason to be considered, @AuroraZero chimed in with his opinion, nothing more. There is no question that the community and staff are not very tolerant of racist or sexist comments directed at any member. Personally I do not think that @AuroraZero was saying we should be sexist on purpose, more that there was no need to change/restrict the community speech because women may be present here.
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I think there are multiple instances, which could make some posts more or less offensive.
may more....
Let me explain, what i mean with these points:
For me, as a non-native English speaker, there are times, where i think in Swiss German and write in English. After rereading, it 3h later i often think: "Damn i am an Idiot, why i wrote it that way"
The background of a person where he may have grown up, or lives has from my view also a big influence of the used Language and the behavior.
For example.
"Du Trottel, besch anad Zdumm zum schissa?" (Swiss German)
"Du Idiot, bist du eingentlich zum dumm um zu scheissen?" (German)
"You idiot, are you actually too stupid to shit?" (English)
This sentence can be used in different situations/moods from a Vocal point of view, but if i write this in a Forum, Chat or what else, there is no way to determine if the person means this as a Joke, or in full seriousness.
Here, where I live, it is to 90% meant as a joke. In here plays also the age and the working industry a big role from my POV.
A person working in a craft professions like roofer, mason or what ever has another language than the same guy from the same Street in an Office Job.
For the Gender Drama which has come up the last few years.
I will not say anything to that, as my English is for sure not good enough to bring my POV in the right words to a letter.
But one question i would have @Mods:
Where there any comment "Flags" or PM's which got to you from a User about gender harrasment or sexism?
Grab your vmWare toblerone today.
Not to my knowledge.
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I think the rule "don't be a dick" covers it all pretty nicely.
You can't please everyone no matter what you do - so it is up to LESbians to determine what the right merit is, and where the line is between the freedom of expression and being a dick.
Regarding culture and "abuse" - this video is quite fun, if not educational - how reddit political correct moderation can go wrong:
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
This right here is why I went back to my cave for so long. All I was doing was stating my options and it gets picked apart like an overdone chicken. Some understood what I was saying but some did not.
I am not sure everyone can be pleased. I do know this though I control me and that is all and no matter what I will continue to be me. If the establishment has a problem with me they can take the appropriate actions. Has happened before and I am sure it will again, until that time join in discussions with me or not that is your choice.
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Just a different opinion, I'm glad he did because ( I'm pretty sure ) I misunderstood what you were saying but @FrankZ's version was clearer and had the benefit of my agreeing with it ( and likely with you ).
I hope that you did not feel my comment above was in any way a negative assessment of the comment you made previously. To be clear it was not. I was just trying to get @ralf to see your comment in the light that I felt that you meant it. My hope is that you will continue to do you, and if so we will all be better off for it.
@bikegremlin - I am not sure why your comment was directed at me as so far I have not offered my opinion on this subject.
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Nah man I was just trying to clarify my thoughts a little better was all. I have learned not to take myself or life too seriously. What will be will be and some think everything is offensive. I don't have the time or energy for that anymore. If you go through life looking for what you perceive are problems that is exactly what you will find. I think some people need to let things go and just be themselves. Stop worrying about what others think and do you.
The world is made up of all kinds and in order for us to work together as a team we need to let these things go and concentrate on what brings us together. I don't care if you identify as hermaphroditic pond scum it makes no difference to me. I will respect you and invite you to join in whatever is going on at the time.
The sexism, racism, plagiarism and what not do not enter my thoughts. Want to be a friend then by all means be a friend and if you don't that is cool as well. Just keep in mind we all are here for same purpose, we love idling servers.
Oh and before someone says anything yes behind the Yeti facade I front there is a man that feels and has emotions and opinions. I don't let them out here often because I believe it is important for things to be light and, for lack of a better term, fun for all.
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Firstly, an apology. I'm still in the middle of COVID and my attention span isn't much more than a couple of minutes on anything, right now, so maybe I've not picked up on subtle nuance in what you were saying, but it seems weird that your reaction is to get so defensive and talk about going back into your cave. FWIW, I don't think you should not say things you agree with, I was merely trying to seek clarification on what you wrote.
Whether it was your intention or not, to me it read as: I have every right to express my view in any way I see fit, and if you are offended that is your problem, don't read it. I wont ask you to change either, so my view is OK.
Now, in many ways, I agree with the general sentiment that people should be able to say what they want (but I would also add the strong proviso that they are not trying to cause offense) and others should in general be more tolerant of what others say (because things people get upset by are often not intended to cause offense).
But your statement jumped out of me for two reasons. Firstly, it was in the middle of the conversation about whether sexist behaviour is OK or not, and secondly, in response to that it seemed to just be a statement of intent: "I am going to say whatever I want, and nothing and nobody is going to change that."
My argument was simply that this is exactly the stance racists used to take in years gone by, and yet now people almost universally agree this is unacceptable.
FWIW, maybe I'm missing some big context here. I know practically nothing about you, and I haven't seen anything that you've said that's been even slightly offensive, but then I've barely been reading anything for a week because of being ill, so maybe something was said that I've overlooked.
In fact, I took it as a general defence of the right to be sexist. It's clear from everyone else's responses that I've misinterpreted you, and probably also didn't express what I was trying to say very clearly.
IMO, there's a huge difference between joking about "Slavic engineering" or "women drivers," and abusing someone deliberately, directly, or calling for a final solution.
I lean a lot more towards greater freedom of expression - so idiots can be ridiculed, rather than censored.
And besides, I believe that Carthage must be destroyed!
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
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Nah no offense taken at all. I was just trying to point out that this is one of many reasons why I just lurked for so long. The right to say what I want should be a fundamental right for anyone that is willing to deal with the consequences of what they said.
To be very clear here I don't condone sexism, racism, or anything like that and if I offend someone I am man enough to apologize. There is a big difference between banter, aka shitposts and being racist, sexist, etc....
In summation I have no problem with anyone. I am not easily offended. No apologies are required and everything is as it was before the discussion happened. This is how it should be discussing a topic, no matter the context, and not being offended. Just genuine thoughts and opinions without fear of ridicule and hate.
Seems simple doesn't it? I just can't figure out why not many do it.
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Here is a comment from my wife after reading this thread from this comment on
To be clear when she says "maybe I am just old" she is not that old and quite a bit younger then me who by contrast is old.
EDIT: I have removed "from @AlwaysSkint 's comment on" and replaced it with a link to the comment where she started reading this thread to be more clear.
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Did she imply that men think?!
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Just as there's a huge difference between making a joke about someone's nose because of a stereotypical genetic trait and full on misogyny.
Yes, it seems she did, but from previous comments she has made, I expect that she meant that we think like children.
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When I was a child, I thought as a child, acted like a child and did childish things. Now that I am grown, I think like I am grown, act like a child and still do childish things.
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Wisnae me!
(Or did you quote the wrong post?)
I did appear to stir this scheissensturm and thus only received a couple of credits.
I began with..
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
This was the post I was referring to which was quoted by Mason in his post that started this conversation.
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Ah, but it didn't come across that way (at least to me) and looked like I was being credited/blamed for ..
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
I seem to be having a issue with my English lately. I've had to clarify my statements for other folks as well.
I'll edit it in an attempt to make it more clear.
Personally I don't think she meant that any one person said that all women think the same. I expect she was just being sexist.
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Had a bad night last night - so probably just me - going off to grab an hour's shuteye.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
Let’s all just agree to not take what happens on LES too seriously and we’ll all be fine.
That includes not taking the really serious people seriously just to see how seriously they take the lack of seriousness.
Seriously though I seriously think that the seriousness of this serious situation is very serious on all serious levels.
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I can't seriously believe that after my serious post about not being serious and taking steps to ensure that we're not serious with the most serious of people over the most serious of situations, you ended up seriously considering my words and then sent a seriously serious response.
I mean, seriously!