Moderators/admins - how do you feel about having them?

InceptionHosting · January 2021

Stemming from elements of this conversation: https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/2317/a-year-in-les-reflections-thoughts-my-history-and-the-future-for-lowendspirit

I want to explore this topic with everyone to see if I simply have too much of an idea view on this subject and should just let go a bit.

mods

In very simple terms I don't have volunteer mods here because:

I do not like people working for free.
I do not like the idea of giving someone who in reality I only know as well as their username access to everyone's email address and IP info.
In reality there is only about 1 flagged post per week if that, people generally just obey the "Don't be a dick" rule here.

Things that have been said that counter my reasons against the list above:

Some people would actually enjoy doing it on a voluntary basis as it extends their hobby to some degree.
Maybe fewer people care than I think about the idea of giving a known community member access to that info anyway.
They can be available on time zones I am not in case anything kicks off while I am not available.

Super Mods

Is there really any difference? maybe super mods also have additional mod rights over hosts.

admins

I would have to insist that this at the very least is a paid role as I would then expect the person in that role to take certain responsibilities on beyond just "if you get a minute" not that it would be a huge amount of hours or anything but some things simply need to be done.

I would want the community to elect the admin although I would likely put the some of the candidates forward myself from observations (I would ask first).

The admin role would probably need to be rolling i.e. once elected, you would need to be re-elected every 12 or 18 or 24 months.

This is all in prep for when things get busier than they are now, atm, I am at a stage whereby I can allocate enough time to keep on top of things for the most part as well as co-ordinate with the dev (who is currently working on improving the comments section for the main site).

Things are on an upward trajectory in terms of view/unique views/unique users so unless that just randomly levels off a time will come when I need help.

Chievo · January 2021

Well i am not pretty sure if mods are necessary. I mean usually once per week or even once per month there are something that acts against do not being a dick rule. It is not too busy with breaking the rules posts.
In any case is a huge responsability ( in my eyes) to being a moderator. So in my opinion if the forum remains at the same level growing with new members at not exponential way i see it like overkill to have moderators or even moderators on different time zones.( at least it is my opinion i could be wrong)

Ympker · January 2021

I think right now, we don't really need mods. The frequency of events that require mod-reaction is, like you mentioned, not high. Another Admin? That's your call, if you need that extra help. But this one needs to be chosen carefully if at all.

vish · January 2021

@Ympker said:
I think right now, we don't really need mods.

concur

InceptionHosting · January 2021

The only real thing personally driving me towards having a mod atm is that I am worried that I miss something, like for example this hostdoc clown trying to come back, my finger is not on that pulse at all.

Admin wise, I would expect them to be driving things forward to enhance the community, not just sitting idle with an admin tag.

cybertech · January 2021

I think what this community can do with now is an active ambassador/marketing rep pretty much like what FAT32 has been doing for the OGF, less the admin work. this way he/she can either think of this as a hobby, or be compensated for it depending on what LES owner says.

Anthony can then decide to focus on being an admin or "hire" one, so he may "sit on the board lol". Whether the ambassador / admin should be one person will depend what the individual (s) want to treat this position as: work or leisure.

once that happens then maybe a (junior) mod should come shorty after to handle what's coming.

Apart from that, it is also possible to select/identify some anchor providers that can actually complement each other to do some collaboration to add (commercial) value to LES, depending on what the commercial side of this forum is leaning towards.

EDIT: end of the day since it's mentioned that Ant doesn't want anyone to work for free, I second that as well. some form of compensation is good, maybe not entirely money but with services etc.

Edit2: may be out of point but oh well.

Chievo · January 2021

@AnthonySmith said:
The only real thing personally driving me towards having a mod atm is that I am worried that I miss something, like for example this hostdoc clown trying to come back, my finger is not on that pulse at all.

Admin wise, I would expect them to be driving things forward to enhance the community, not just sitting idle with an admin tag.

You have all the members+ low end detectives which are helping to mantain the site clean of scams.
Finding another person who would improve the site? It would be difficult to find him/her.and if someone is interested in improve it he would do it before being an admin. I mean lf someone has any idea how to improve it would be a great idea to share it. Probably some bright mind would share it. I think it is better alternative to offer some discount/offer/stickers/anything on some VPS for example for ideas how to improve the LES site. Than give a responsability and wait the plan to be executed in 12-24 months after an election.
For example
Let s find that we have 5 persons that could be admin with 5 plans .

Is not better to share their plans before that.improve and take actions and grow together. We are a community and we do not need to wait 12months×5 persons= 60 months to start all the plans. That s the problem of the politicians for example.

bikegremlin · January 2021

If it's becoming a burden to you - then you need mods/admins.

If not - then you don't.

It's as simple as that.

I don't see a problem with sharing my email with a regular forum member. Even the dicks like @Ympker @Chievo and, last, but not the least annoying, @AnthonySmith

mikho · January 2021

Mods are needed in all larger communitys. I don’t see this forum as large enough to have mods at this time.

If you are considering some additional ”staff”.
Bring in an additional Admin, work side by side and evaluate the work needed and the outcome of time put in.

That way you can slowly ease your way out, and noone will (hopefully) cry when you actually do exit.

bikegremlin · January 2021

Use Serbian made, world class tool for tracking the time needed:

https://clockify.me/

(not my project, not selling it, but can recommend it)

havoc · January 2021

If someone is keen on it why not. It's gonna be pretty tame anyway given it's a smallish community & isn't big on discussing politics/religion/etc

everyone's email address and IP info.

Can't the software accommodate this at only admin level? i.e. much like reddit...the mods can't see IPs, only reddit employees can

Else perhaps an auto-modder. If it gets flagged >X times it gets hidden? Open to abuse in it's own way ofc

gks · January 2021

You can have volunteer mods, paid part time freelance admin sort.
Volunteer mods may get some freebies when host try to give away something along with other goodness if that matters.
You may oversee things whatever extend you like to based on your trust level.
At least minimal KYC details of host persons, will keep few bad one away. After all, it is business, monetary transactions involved.

CamoYoshi · January 2021

If a regular trusted member of the community becomes a mod/admin I have zero problems with them seeing my IP address and email address, personally. Especially considering my IP at home is dynamic.

Brueggus · January 2021

While things are running quite smooth, to my mind, it'll be good to have one or two other people (maybe from other timezones), just in case there's content that would need to be removed asap.

ehab · January 2021

so far .. i think --- no mods , no admins needed.

seriesn · January 2021

Multiple mods to keep each other’s on check, hopefully a combination of provider + non provider, one silent admin who doesn’t abuse their power and believes in democracy aka AntMan

mikho · January 2021

@seriesn said: aka AntMan

I thought it was @AntFish ??

deank · January 2021

Well, whether you like them or not, they are necessary evils.

Unless you plan to be here 24/7, you need one.

Just choose wisely. Don't pick a troll like me to be a mod.

@mikho said:
I thought it was @AntFish ??

Originally, it was @AntFish. But Ant himself claimed that he wanted to be a gold fish at some point after his life.

Therefore, it is @AntGoldFish.

bikegremlin · January 2021

@deank said:

Just choose wisely. Don't pick a troll like me to be a mod.

deank · January 2021

Logically, you fight fire with water.

I mean, I'd rather fight fire with water or "holy" water (pee).

beagle · January 2021

Based on the volume of flagged posts Ant mentioned I don't think we need mods now, but it may worth getting someone in early to see how things would work when the community grows and they are really needed. It could start with a volunteer and as demand grows it may become a paid position.

Re admin, giving Ant expectations for the role I think it makes sense being a paid position. S/he will be accountable for the development roadmap and should be rewarded accordingly.

ben47955 · January 2021

Everyone should get mod role and we will see what happen.

Falzo · January 2021

@bikegremlin said: If it's becoming a burden to you - then you need mods/admins.

If not - then you don't.

It's as simple as that.

this. if the second person is labeled admin or mod and to what extend they have permissions depends on the amount of work they should take over. different timezones are a valid reason imho.

also this sounds very reasonable:

@mikho said: Mods are needed in all larger communitys. I don’t see this forum as large enough to have mods at this time.

If you are considering some additional ”staff”.
Bring in an additional Admin, work side by side and evaluate the work needed and the outcome of time put in.

That way you can slowly ease your way out, and noone will (hopefully) cry when you actually do exit.

couldn't have said it better. ?‍♂️?

james50a · January 2021

if you need a casual mod to just filter out people being a dick I wouldnt mind volunteering but generally this community seems pretty decent so i'm not sure how much its needed.

deank · January 2021

@Leee is the best person to do it.

I'd vote for @Herr_Amitz but he isn't very active.

Not_Oles · January 2021

We all need sleep! That includes Ant! Even when awake, nobody can be expected to be paying attention all the time.

Awhile back I seem to remember flagging an obnoxious attack one forum member had posted against another. The obnoxious content was removed, and the person who had posted the obnoxious content was banned. But the obnoxious content had remained up for hours before being removed.

The attack hurt the victim enough that he left the forum for months. The victim was somebody with whom I had been enjoying talking via PMs. All is okay now, he is back on the forum, and and we now have each other's email addresses, but I lost contact with him while he was away.

Notably, the timestamps of various posts suggested that, if somebody could have pressed the button at the time when I first saw the attack, the victim might never even have seen it.

Because of the above experience, maybe we need a few more mods in time zones different from Ant or else at least a mod-bot which temporarily hides stuff based on flagging. The new mod-bot doesn't have to be me -- in fact, I think I'd rather it not -- but, if help is needed, I am delighted to do everything I can. I'm grateful for LES. I've learned a lot here, and I've made a lot of friends here! ? As always, thanks to @AnthonySmith for making this wonderful place! ?

BusterWolf · January 2021

A couple of chilled mods to help take the load off and it’s all good in the hood. Moderators do it for the love of the community and as long as you aren’t asking for more hours than they’re comfortable doing then I don’t think anyone expects to be paid.

InceptionHosting · January 2021

@CamoYoshi said:
If a regular trusted member of the community becomes a mod/admin I have zero problems with them seeing my IP address and email address, personally. Especially considering my IP at home is dynamic.

Yeah, I may actually also disable x-forward for IP's anyway, then everyone is just Cloudflare (won't be much use if I move off Cloudflare I guess)

Thanks to @bikegremlin who sent me a suggestion which was not a million miles away from the discussion we had around this just over a year ago now regarding the mod role.

I think for that 'just in case' scenario I will take on 1 mod, maybe 2 and get the dev to implement a role switcher plugin for certain accounts, no one will know who the mods are, they will simply be able to single click switch from the top bar into a mod account or rather enter "Mod Mode" e.g. LES-Mod all mods will use the same account when in "Mod Mode" so even if a clanger is dropped people won't be able to tie it to a specific account but I will see about putting double confirmation on all actions protection in place.

That will stop the mod/admin persecution that is absolutely 100% going to happen at some point as proven at LET time and time again.

Might not be possible but I suspect given the bones of a plugin I already have which was for me to switch to LEST-Bot simply without logging in and out it should be fairly straight forward.

Mason · January 2021

My thoughts -

If you ever find yourself actively needing the help of another mod (and don't already have one), then you're late to the game. Get someone on board early, teach them the ropes, outline their expected tasks/duties, hold a community-based election if need be. That way, that someone can be in place so you're not scrambling to find someone and have to throw them into the deep end to keep the place clean and on track. Additionally, when this first someone is picked, consider piecing together a mod-wiki of sorts that documents the what-to-do's and maybe more importantly the what-NOT-to-do's. Have the mod also record any thoughts like "man... it would be really nice if I had been told this or shown how to do that before I actually needed to do it". Having something like that in place would make bringing on additional mods or retiring/transitioning of a mod role to someone else immensely more smooth and easy.

I sincerely hope it doesn't, but if this place attracts any sort of the same crowd as LET, you're going to want to keep IPs/emails un-obscured for mods. Censoring that for mods, will essentially neuter them and their ability to keep the place clean. Think ban evaders, spammers, scammers, etc -- something you haven't really had to deal with at all here... yet. Basically the question here is if you want the mods taking an active role to preemptively thwart potential abusers/troublemakers or just have them clean up the mess after someone shits all over the place.

souen · January 2021

Having more admins sounds good, paid if possible. They can help with the bus factor and extend monitoring to more hours in the day. Also to avoid one person having to do all the work, getting burnout and end up leaving permanently as a result.

Mew · January 2021

@AnthonySmith said:
2. I do not like the idea of giving someone who in reality I only know as well as their username access to everyone's email address and IP info.

Is is not possible to restrict mods from accessing this kind of information?

Moderators/admins - how do you feel about having them?

mods

Super Mods

admins

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