They same why you can't get our point that was told multiple times here.
of course I know your point.I give my advice and I also accept the suspension.But once again, please inform your customers( whether he is legal or illegal) before you take any actions.,especially in this industry.
@Franzkafka if I may also act, I assume at this point we are both aware you used a scalper, is there any reason you thought it would be better to come here and say otherwise or not provide those details in your appeal? Did you believe it would give you a better chance of unsuspension?
They same why you can't get our point that was told multiple times here.
of course I know your point.I give my advice and I also accept the suspension.But once again, please inform your customers( whether he is legal or illegal) before you take any actions.,especially in this industry.
If you understand our point, how could we possibly do that without the risk of you selling it to someone else? I feel like I've asked this 5 times by now but it's really difficult to take your suggestion seriously if we both understand eachother's points yet you will not state in what way you could have genuinely had a better experience if we warned you before a suspension. I do understand this if you were possibly running something very important but that goes back to why you would do that on someone else's account when you understand other potential risks associated with that.
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Okay so here's what I can propose to potentially help everyone out, and this is just an idea I had and in no way official. I'd just like to hear feedback on it and still need to consider potential issues with it.
Would it be helpful if all accounts that are flagged as having this issue or other issues have a big red message when you log in to the client area informing you that it's pending possible suspension? I feel like I can already see some problems with that, since I assume you won't know until you log in and by that point the scalper already has your money. And we can't just publicly publish a list due to privacy reasons and also again, you probably wouldn't see it until it's too late. Of course this also means every person who sees that immediately opens a ticket asking why, and it causes the same support load eventually as processing all the appeals, and that's before we even decide to do anything. So then they get suspended and then we have to do it all over again.
I'd need more information about the entire process to be able to come up with a better warning system.
@Franzkafka said: Frankly I didn't pay you directly,no renewal and no adding funds.But I know someone dose.And I am not a scalper, next renewal I will pay for it.And I must emphasize again,I am here not require you to give my service back.I am here because I think suspend customer service without early alert is not good, especially in this industry.you can check you previous comments.But you just think I am one of thescalpers,and I came here just for my service back.This is incorrect.
Do you have any information you can provide regarding your purchase from the scalper? How much did you pay for yours? And if you're here because you think our suspension policy isn't good, what do you more specifically suggest would have been done instead? Give me the amount of time you think you should have been provided and how it would have helped you outside of just reselling it to someone else to reduce your losses.
@qqlikelo said: By the way, how much did I pay for the scalpers? This bad guy? Well, it's about $30. Then you paused it in three days.
May I ask why you decided to pay that much for the service and how you located the scalper? And is there any reason you knew about us enough to want it but not purchase it directly, or did you attempt to purchase directly but just missed the period? Or did you not know about us and you just searched online for a Tokyo VPS and found the scalper first? Is it in relation to payment methods we don't have on our site?
This especially doesn't make sense to me because right now, at this exact second, you can go on our website, and you could have also done this three days ago when you say you made the purchase from the scalper and most likely been able to get it for a similar price. Is it because it renews at a lower rate so you thought it's a better return on your investment by paying a one time fee? And you didn't say which plan you have specifically. Perhaps it was something way better, or maybe not even in Tokyo, I don't believe I've looked at your appeal yet specifically and even if I have I wouldn't know which one is yours, but I'll just use @Franzkafka as an example here.
He got a 384MB special in Tokyo I believe, for $8.88 per year. Perhaps he got it at a different time when it made sense, and again, I don't know how much he paid the scalper. But a similar service can be purchased here at full price for $25 per year in Tokyo: https://billing.virmach.com/cart.php?a=add&pid=206
Other coupon codes that are currently active can possibly bring this down by about 30%
@Franzkafka may I also ask what made it more compelling to buy from the scalper for you? As in, what would have to change for you to have not considered it? Would a setup fee instead of recurring surcharge for Tokyo change it? Availability level? Or did the special have something you really needed like more bandwidth? I assume you're not really running a Telegram bot on it and there has to be some other reason, otherwise it's just weird how you reacted.
I want an Asian server to do vpn because their latency is lower. I said I didn't ask for it, so price and flow are my focus. I learned about vir through the forum because I have never considered transaction risks. So I bought one with a lower renewal price. This can be regarded as the lowest cost for long-term use. Because he can satisfy me without paying a high fee. You asked me why I didn't buy it directly? Because there is no one, it is out of stock. The Japanese machine of 8.8 stopped when I found that I knew vir. There is no replenishment. Do you want to know who I am? TK: #743940 I sent a complaint, but you didn't reply to me. In fact, I was almost the first to come here, because I wanted to figure out what was going on. If possible, I really hope I can repay this vps. Its discount put me in a trap. I don't even hesitate to come here and talk to you for so long. I don't want to give it up.
@qqlikelo said:
Everything is clear. I figured out everything. However, the biggest problem is that the value of my "violation vps" is much less than $25. Issue a $25 ticket, which costs much higher than I bought a new vps again. So basically I said so much that I just figured out if I used the vir service reasonably, instead of saving my vps. I'm very sorry. As for finding the scalper and selling me this vps villain, this is not what I can do, and all the transaction information has been lost. Maybe the boss of vir can trace back to him through log/IP address and other information, but it has nothing to do with me. Because I don't have any permissions. I don't even know how much the previous email he gave me was.
I just want a vpn to bypass the firewall. This wasted me too much time.
I'm even wondering what I'm talking about here? Why should I waste my time here? Nothing has changed. Just when I learned some rules that I didn't know before. Laugh.
Like I said from the beginning, your VPS is most likely less value than the fee and I was confused as why you were interested in paying the fee for an appeal/unsuspension, even if it was guaranteed.
As for your situation, are you saying that you don't have the transaction information for the payment you sent to the scalper, or are you saying you don't have it for the original payment on the account? Because those would have two different implications. Do you mind saying how much you paid for this service and the service specs/cost? I asked this previously, I'm unsure if you already answered it.
I may have missed some information because the translation software is imperfect. First of all, I just have some simple hopes, such as repaying this vps and making a new billing cycle to exempt me from punishment. The low cost of doing so does not mean that I can afford any amount... The second thing is that I mean, I don't have any information other than a screenshot of the bill paid to the scalpers. So I can't do anything. To continue to trace and sanction these people, you need to find them yourself. By the way, how much did I pay for the scalpers? This bad guy? Well, it's about $30. Then you paused it in three days.
Finally, after talking so much, I still hope to end this misunderstanding. This is also my starting point. It's my fault to buy vps from a scalper. But I hope you can help me recover it. Maybe it's impossible...
My advice is go get a refund from the scalper. You paid $30 for a service you used for 3 days. That doesn't sound smart.
@Franzkafka said: Frankly I didn't pay you directly,no renewal and no adding funds.But I know someone dose.And I am not a scalper, next renewal I will pay for it.And I must emphasize again,I am here not require you to give my service back.I am here because I think suspend customer service without early alert is not good, especially in this industry.you can check you previous comments.But you just think I am one of thescalpers,and I came here just for my service back.This is incorrect.
Do you have any information you can provide regarding your purchase from the scalper? How much did you pay for yours? And if you're here because you think our suspension policy isn't good, what do you more specifically suggest would have been done instead? Give me the amount of time you think you should have been provided and how it would have helped you outside of just reselling it to someone else to reduce your losses.
@qqlikelo said: By the way, how much did I pay for the scalpers? This bad guy? Well, it's about $30. Then you paused it in three days.
May I ask why you decided to pay that much for the service and how you located the scalper? And is there any reason you knew about us enough to want it but not purchase it directly, or did you attempt to purchase directly but just missed the period? Or did you not know about us and you just searched online for a Tokyo VPS and found the scalper first? Is it in relation to payment methods we don't have on our site?
This especially doesn't make sense to me because right now, at this exact second, you can go on our website, and you could have also done this three days ago when you say you made the purchase from the scalper and most likely been able to get it for a similar price. Is it because it renews at a lower rate so you thought it's a better return on your investment by paying a one time fee? And you didn't say which plan you have specifically. Perhaps it was something way better, or maybe not even in Tokyo, I don't believe I've looked at your appeal yet specifically and even if I have I wouldn't know which one is yours, but I'll just use @Franzkafka as an example here.
He got a 384MB special in Tokyo I believe, for $8.88 per year. Perhaps he got it at a different time when it made sense, and again, I don't know how much he paid the scalper. But a similar service can be purchased here at full price for $25 per year in Tokyo: https://billing.virmach.com/cart.php?a=add&pid=206
Other coupon codes that are currently active can possibly bring this down by about 30%
@Franzkafka may I also ask what made it more compelling to buy from the scalper for you? As in, what would have to change for you to have not considered it? Would a setup fee instead of recurring surcharge for Tokyo change it? Availability level? Or did the special have something you really needed like more bandwidth? I assume you're not really running a Telegram bot on it and there has to be some other reason, otherwise it's just weird how you reacted.
Let me explain it more clearly. First,When you release such plan with discount( Tokyo) I didn't know that and I am quite not believe you because you already have a lot of complains about your service in LET. Second, one day I found I need a server in Japan meanwhile with gooe network,and I heard that your server( Tokyo) is good but there is no such plan again.So I decided to purchase one from others.
@Franzkafka said: Frankly I didn't pay you directly,no renewal and no adding funds.But I know someone dose.And I am not a scalper, next renewal I will pay for it.And I must emphasize again,I am here not require you to give my service back.I am here because I think suspend customer service without early alert is not good, especially in this industry.you can check you previous comments.But you just think I am one of thescalpers,and I came here just for my service back.This is incorrect.
Do you have any information you can provide regarding your purchase from the scalper? How much did you pay for yours? And if you're here because you think our suspension policy isn't good, what do you more specifically suggest would have been done instead? Give me the amount of time you think you should have been provided and how it would have helped you outside of just reselling it to someone else to reduce your losses.
@qqlikelo said: By the way, how much did I pay for the scalpers? This bad guy? Well, it's about $30. Then you paused it in three days.
May I ask why you decided to pay that much for the service and how you located the scalper? And is there any reason you knew about us enough to want it but not purchase it directly, or did you attempt to purchase directly but just missed the period? Or did you not know about us and you just searched online for a Tokyo VPS and found the scalper first? Is it in relation to payment methods we don't have on our site?
This especially doesn't make sense to me because right now, at this exact second, you can go on our website, and you could have also done this three days ago when you say you made the purchase from the scalper and most likely been able to get it for a similar price. Is it because it renews at a lower rate so you thought it's a better return on your investment by paying a one time fee? And you didn't say which plan you have specifically. Perhaps it was something way better, or maybe not even in Tokyo, I don't believe I've looked at your appeal yet specifically and even if I have I wouldn't know which one is yours, but I'll just use @Franzkafka as an example here.
He got a 384MB special in Tokyo I believe, for $8.88 per year. Perhaps he got it at a different time when it made sense, and again, I don't know how much he paid the scalper. But a similar service can be purchased here at full price for $25 per year in Tokyo: https://billing.virmach.com/cart.php?a=add&pid=206
Other coupon codes that are currently active can possibly bring this down by about 30%
@Franzkafka may I also ask what made it more compelling to buy from the scalper for you? As in, what would have to change for you to have not considered it? Would a setup fee instead of recurring surcharge for Tokyo change it? Availability level? Or did the special have something you really needed like more bandwidth? I assume you're not really running a Telegram bot on it and there has to be some other reason, otherwise it's just weird how you reacted.
Let me explain it more clearly. First,When you release such plan with discount( Tokyo) I didn't know that and I am quite not believe you because you already have a lot of complains about your service in LET. Second, one day I found I need a server in Japan meanwhile with gooe network,and I heard that your server( Tokyo) is good but there is no such plan again.So I decided to purchase one from others.
And there is one thing,how do you judge whether a man is your customer or just scalper?I am definitely not a scalper,you can check my account info.If some customers like me buy your server in need,but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?No.He once to be your real customer and now he just dosen't need it.So he can't transfer his service to another guy?
@Franzkafka said:
And there is one thing,how do you judge whether a man is your customer or just scalper?I am definitely not a scalper,you can check my account info.If some customers like me buy your server in need,but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?No.He once to be your real customer and now he just dosen't need it.So he can't transfer his service to another guy?
Then use the official way to transfer a service, maybe by opening a ticket, instead of selling the whole account.
@qqlikelo said: I want an Asian server to do vpn because their latency is lower. I said I didn't ask for it, so price and flow are my focus. I learned about vir through the forum because I have never considered transaction risks. So I bought one with a lower renewal price. This can be regarded as the lowest cost for long-term use. Because he can satisfy me without paying a high fee. You asked me why I didn't buy it directly? Because there is no one, it is out of stock. The Japanese machine of 8.8 stopped when I found that I knew vir. There is no replenishment. Do you want to know who I am? TK: #743940 I sent a complaint, but you didn't reply to me. In fact, I was almost the first to come here, because I wanted to figure out what was going on. If possible, I really hope I can repay this vps. Its discount put me in a trap. I don't even hesitate to come here and talk to you for so long. I don't want to give it up.
Okay, so if I understand correctly then, and with the added ticket information:
You purchased, 3 days ago, a service that is $4.57 a year and renews in the next couple months for $30 one-time fee. It has 640MB of RAM and 1TB bandwidth, with 15GB disk, but what's most important for VPN is the 1TB bandwidth. So technically, it should not be any different to you if it's only 384MB RAM but perhaps your specific setup and OS requires more. I can see that you bought this about 7 days ago, which is pretty close to your story, which is very unfortunately, because you purchased this exactly on the same day that I flagged this account. And also the person you purchased it from was directly involved with the other issues I described. It actually looks like this happened within 3 hours of eachother, so you're very unlucky.
Good news is that your appeal included this information and you were honest, so there's a possibly we may be able to help without causing further problems by lying, which most other people did. I'm sure if anyone is reading this they may consider being truthful as well but that also means people will use that maliciously, so you basically made it at the right time for it to be considered at least somewhat genuine.
Anyway, to confirm, you are saying if this was on our site for $4.57 per year plus $30 setup fee with 1TB bandwidth, for your use case, you would have made that purchase directly?
So the market rate over 2 years would be $19.57 per year, and that would have essentially been very close to our advertised price. But 5 years would be $10.57 per year, and you originally would have wanted the $8.88 special. I guess it's difficult to calculate how long you believed you would have kept the service for but surely you also potentially evaluates the other risks associated with it? I mean you don't even have a guarantee that the annual price won't change. I'm not saying it will, just that as a customer that's something you don't know 100%
Short version: your appeal may have a chance, pending other checks when I get to your ticket. And I'll consider making price modifications so others don't end up getting encouraged to use scalpers by perhaps shifting Tokyo additional fee to be non-reoccuring.
@Franzkafka said: .. but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?
That is the definition, if not done through official channels - even if it takes months to process (sorry Virmach!)
@Franzkafka said: So he can't transfer his service to another guy?
See above.
About the account selling I have nothing to say,I confirm this behavior is not good.But you also mentioned that the transfer may last months because the poor support.To some degree this have caused the fact that so many guys choose to purchase directly rather than transfer by Official ways. Let's finished this and talk my question again.Do you really think It's a good way to suspend service without early alert?This is my first time among so many providers
@Franzkafka said: And there is one thing,how do you judge whether a man is your customer or just scalper?I am definitely not a scalper,you can check my account info.If some customers like me buy your server in need,but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?No.He once to be your real customer and now he just dosen't need it.So he can't transfer his service to another guy?
We can't properly differentiate between a scalper and unofficial "customer" because the system is not built to be able to support that scenario, nor could it be, since scalpers can then just pretend to be customers. There's a few ways in some scenarios where we can tell. Even if you aren't a scalper, that is not the issue. If I believed you were 100% a scalper we would not even be having this discussion. The account is still technically not officially yours, nor just yours at all times, so it goes based off the entire history.
So any breach of ToS can be enforced for what anyone who had control of the account did on it.
I still haven't heard from you on how much you paid for yours I don't think, or when you made the purchase from the scalper, would you like to share that information?
@Franzkafka said: If some customers like me buy your server in need,but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?No
They'd potentially be a scalper if they're selling it above MSRP and more importantly, unless it's officially documented, situations such as this one arise. So if the customer transfers it and makes a profit, that's fine, and perhaps based on other factors it could be considered an investment they made rather than intentional scalping. Still, if the customer instead normally cancels the service, and doesn't try to profit, then that space goes to someone else at similar price or at least most likely a lower price in another sale, so in that case, based on the nature, it's basically still scalping. The scalping part or economics of it is not the sole problem and it probably to some degree is not the biggest problem.
But if they do it by just changing the information over, then that means all the account history is shared and the future owner is now associated with all past negative events on the account.
@Franzkafka said:
The real scalpers should have multiple accounts and purchase servers and sold them frequently. That is what I think scalpers to be like.
You do realize though, that all these accounts are associated with multiple accounts and are purchased and sold frequently? So how exactly do we have a cut-off for when it's OK when it was never OK to begin with to have multiple accounts or giving account credentials to others unofficially?
@FrankZ said:
I expect the problem is easy enough to solve without VirMach's involvement. Create an account in your name, with your account details and purchase a service directly from VirMach's website. Then afterwards live within the TOS and you should not have to worry about being suspended in the future.
Basically my response but I also offered to honor the same deal and provide some courtesy service extension. This is the only proper way to do it.
That's honestly way more generous than I would've expected, and if no one actually takes you up on this, I'd think that the entire scalper's market is basically unsalvageable. How do you convert people that would rather pay a scalper $30+ than set up their own legit account when they aren't even willing to save their account AND keep their deal by going legit?
@Franzkafka said:
of course I know your point.I give my advice and I also accept the suspension.But once again, please inform your customers( whether he is legal or illegal) before you take any actions.,especially in this industry.
In this industry provider suspend the service first and give you chance to fix the problem ( with notification )... This is because maybe your server got hacked and you are on vacation traveling on another country; so any second your server is online and hacked, affect all neighbors. I don't see your point really.
@Franzkafka said: .. but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?
That is the definition, if not done through official channels - even if it takes months to process (sorry Virmach!)
@Franzkafka said: So he can't transfer his service to another guy?
See above.
About the account selling I have nothing to say,I confirm this behavior is not good.But you also mentioned that the transfer may last months because the poor support.To some degree this have caused the fact that so many guys choose to purchase directly rather than transfer by Official ways. Let's finished this and talk my question again.
I can say that sure, to some degree it could have potentially caused it but realistically, no. We can wok on the part where we change the pricing and availability of plans to discourage it from there being a need for it but even with our best effort there will always be times where it's not immediately available, especially if no one cancels and holds onto it to resell.
Do you really think It's a good way to suspend service without early alert?This is my first time among so many providers
In this case? Yes, it's a very good idea for several reasons. In all cases? No, and we don't do that.
You have to realize that per our terms of service and how things work, this is essentially either a case of an account being potentially hacked or someone having multiple accounts. If a single account abuses, which they have, it means all linked accounts can be suspended without notice.
And again, one of the reasons it's a terrible idea to buy from scalpers.
You have to understand these things are a normal occurrence, every day. Because people do that. Only in this specific scenario is it seen as abnormal by you since it was never intended that accounts be split off in this way, for good reason. Plenty of people have multiple accounts and the second they do something illegal on one, we go and check for all accounts and suspend them for the exact same reason. Because they essentially are the same person/entity.
You basically chose to associate yourself with all these other people and as a result you unfortunately are held accountable in proxy because we can only treat it as what it really is, which is an account that's not really yours, so if the original owners did something on other services, they are responsible on all their accounts.
(edit) Even worse, should someone commit a really heinous crime on their service, guess what happens when there is an official legal request? You get included in the report. It's just such a bad idea for so many different reasons, we are only getting into it at a very basic level.
@Franzkafka said: And there is one thing,how do you judge whether a man is your customer or just scalper?I am definitely not a scalper,you can check my account info.If some customers like me buy your server in need,but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?No.He once to be your real customer and now he just dosen't need it.So he can't transfer his service to another guy?
We can't properly differentiate between a scalper and unofficial "customer" because the system is not built to be able to support that scenario, nor could it be, since scalpers can then just pretend to be customers. There's a few ways in some scenarios where we can tell. Even if you aren't a scalper, that is not the issue. If I believed you were 100% a scalper we would not even be having this discussion. The account is still technically not officially yours, nor just yours at all times, so it goes based off the entire history.
So any breach of ToS can be enforced for what anyone who had control of the account did on it.
I still haven't heard from you on how much you paid for yours I don't think, or when you made the purchase from the scalper, would you like to share that information?
@Franzkafka said: If some customers like me buy your server in need,but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?No
They'd potentially be a scalper if they're selling it above MSRP and more importantly, unless it's officially documented, situations such as this one arise. So if the customer transfers it and makes a profit, that's fine, and perhaps based on other factors it could be considered an investment they made rather than intentional scalping. Still, if the customer instead normally cancels the service, and doesn't try to profit, then that space goes to someone else at similar price or at least most likely a lower price in another sale, so in that case, based on the nature, it's basically still scalping. The scalping part or economics of it is not the sole problem and it probably to some degree is not the biggest problem.
But if they do it by just changing the information over, then that means all the account history is shared and the future owner is now associated with all past negative events on the account.
@Franzkafka said:
The real scalpers should have multiple accounts and purchase servers and sold them frequently. That is what I think scalpers to be like.
You do realize though, that all these accounts are associated with multiple accounts and are purchased and sold frequently? So how exactly do we have a cut-off for when it's OK when it was never OK to begin with to have multiple accounts or giving account credentials to others unofficially?
I still haven't heard from you on how much you paid for yours I don't think, or when you made the purchase from the scalper, would you like to share that information?
I bought this in 9.14,and paid for it 15 dollars approximately.
And let me conclude again:
1.I admit selling/purcahse account is not good.But to some degree it's because your poor transfer service.And actually nobody wants to do this if all conditions are met.
2.I am not a scalper and I came here not for getting my service back, While I came here just want to tell you: in my opinion suspend service without early alert is not good.no matter you approve it or not.
3.I gave you my advice but you ignored it and you subconsciously thank I'm a scalper, I just want my services back. It's kind of insulting.
@infplus said: I would like to discuss with you what I am doing wrong. Ticket ID: 229897
...
You don't even need to provide a ticket, and I don't need to look at it, we both know you're a terrible abuser and you're one of the primary people that caused this to happen. Yes, I also know you're the guy additionally abusing the services and causing high loads. Yes, I already have a huge list of all your accounts specifically, if it makes you feel special. No, I haven't gone through them all yet.
Just do yourself a favor and be quiet. It will help you out by not being so obvious and terrible at doing what you do. Your appeals are some of the worst out of anyone. You're not very clever or as clever as you think. You've made me physically facepalm in the past.
I couldn't keep quiet because I strongly disagreed with the name abuser, and I didn't overuse resources, not now, not in the future. I have never abused the services of any provider. However, I violated tos, because one person can only have one account, I am willing to pay the fine and collect all the servers into one account.
@Franzkafka said: I gave you my advice but you ignored it and you subconsciously think I'm a scalper, I just want my services back. It's kind of insulting.
What part of this gives you the idea that I think you're a scalper?
@VirMach said: If I believed you were 100% a scalper we would not even be having this discussion
And what exactly is your advice here? I've heard about how you think there should be some advanced notice before a suspension. Which I thoroughly understand, and responded to and did not ignore. It's already done, I can't go back and give you additional notice, and I've considered it and requested more information on how you would envision it.
@Franzkafka said: I bought this in 9.14,and pay for it 15 dollars approximately.
So in your case, $8.88 in 6 months or so renewal, and then $15 one-time. Over 2 years, pro-rated, that's $14.16 per year. Over 5 years, that's $10.99 per year. Okay, thanks for the information. I've changed our pricing to where instead of being +$1/MO +$10/YR +$18/2YR for Tokyo, it's now just a $10 setup fee. This may change again in the future but it works out to the following for both of these two situations.
$4.57 per year + $30
2 Year: $19.57
5 Year: $10.57
$8.88 per year + $15 (Half year already used)
2 Year: $14.16
5 Year: $10.99
Old official site - $15 per year + $10/YR
2 Year: $25
5 Year: $25
Official site - $15 per year + $10 Setup
2 Year: $20
5 Year: $17
Yes it's still more expensive but there's also coupons that come and go but you can consider the extra $5 a year the "will actually get to use it and not get suspended for breaching ToS and being associated with several other problematic customers" fee. I actually don't know if we have a 30% coupon active for it, I'd have to look but we usually do and that'd change it to $14 for 2 year and $11.90 which is effectively very similar.
This is until someone figures out a way to use this change to their advantage and ruins it for everyone and we have to just change it back.
@VirMach
Your latest actions, patience and responses have genuinely impressed me.
I totally understand the frustrations of the people buying off scalpers however as stated a number of times, your contract / TOS is with the original purchaser (scalper) and is not associated with the current user.
From my perspective, the real problem was accepting the original purchaser and the frustrations / suspensions / abuse / workload are the natural outcome.
So you need to really concentrate on the sign up process (as I am sure you know).
Obviously as a company you need to grow and get more customers but these customers need to be 'trustworthy' and follow the rules. So why don't you focus more on the customers you can verify e.g. do provide proper address matched with payment method, reputable email (not a throw away).
I know this will not erradicate the problem completely however it will certainly reduce them. It would reduce your overall sales initially but by providing a more reliable, reponsive service, more customers would come directly to you in the longer term.
BTW I feel avoiding the OGF is also a good move.
Keep doing what you are doing - you have my support (not that it means much).
When entitled abusers can't accept what they have done is wrong, then just piss off and get a life/legit. You deliberately circumvented official channels so take the punishment.
@VirMach said: And what exactly is your advice here? I've heard about how you think there should be some advanced notice before a suspension. Which I thoroughly understand, and responded to and did not ignore. It's already done, I can't go back and give you additional notice, and I've considered it and requested more information on how you would envision it.
please check below
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here
Are you serious?
**
1.That's OK. Whatever the final result is,I still have to say:What you did is not good.You can set a deadline, require people provide more details to prove that they didn't violate your TOS.And then take actions.But you didn't, while suspended customer's service directly. It's a shame-
2.One more thing,plz modified your SUSPENSION APPEAL FORM template. Current template you just require customers answer questions While most questions have nothing to do with this cleanup.If you need customers provide more personal infos to prove he didn't violate TOS, please give your requirement clear. While not publish your announcement about this cleanup in Lowendscript forum. Again,you didn't notify your customers about this cleanup and why.**
I think I already gave my feedback here.But you ignored what I said above.Not a big deal here.I won't reply again.
When I give my feedback，what are you doing？Just ignored it and then ask me give some constructive feedback
@infplus said: I couldn't keep quiet because I strongly disagreed with the name abuser, and I didn't overuse resources, not now, not in the future. I have never abused the services of any provider. However, I violated tos, because one person can only have one account, I am willing to pay the fine and collect all the servers into one account.
I don't know how it translates for you but generally someone who breaks AUP is called an abuser since there was abuse or misuse of the service. If you're actually claiming that you also did not break the AUP, you clearly are only lying to yourself at this point. It's very clear that your usage levels are not within the acceptable levels.
It doesn't help that for some reason you still believe we're at a point where you can continue lying about what you're doing in your appeals, embarrassing yourself, giving me second hand embarrassment, and it also doesn't help that you're replying with more outlandish claims. You can't just keep pretending it's only slightly worse in little modifications in hopes of getting a reduced punishment. That only shows you're not capable of being totally honest and in your case, even if you were, your plan for just slightly reducing the usage will not work because you are also clearly using your services in ways that are not intended, specifically because it will always cause problems.
I did warn you not to reply, but since you have, and not only that, used it as an opportunity to continue spreading lies, now I have to go through your accounts and thoroughly show you and everyone why your claims are false and that just means you continue to bring attention to yourself. It seems like you're interested in making sure that I find more of your abusive services, and won't stop until every single one is suspended. If that's not your end goal then you're approaching the matter in a terrible way.
Also you should consider maybe not using the same name and profile on HostLoc and if you're going to publicly post about every time you do or don't get caught, realize that first of all that's not usually a good idea. In this case it didn't really change anything, but I do also see you spreading lies and bending our words to make us look as if we're doing something way worse. When you tell your little followers that we're charging $25 and leave out all the context, and that we'll just keep the money essentially in all cases and not do anything about it, when you yourself have already had several chances to actually use the system for free and instead decided to not be truthful which makes it difficult to assist you.
How exactly do you propose any situation where you walk away from this being able to continue using the services for what you're actually doing, instead of every time you reply back and say "website"
Do you know how many times I pitied you and decided to be nice about it and the chances you got to actually follow our AUP? You really believe that I didn't already know all those accounts were you? No, I did, and I tried to give you multiple chances. Instead any time I let you walk away and improve, you took it as an opportunity to believe you had somehow "tricked" us into unsuspending your service and learned nothing.
Comments
of course I know your point.I give my advice and I also accept the suspension.But once again, please inform your customers( whether he is legal or illegal) before you take any actions.,especially in this industry.
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more THAN
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
@Franzkafka if I may also act, I assume at this point we are both aware you used a scalper, is there any reason you thought it would be better to come here and say otherwise or not provide those details in your appeal? Did you believe it would give you a better chance of unsuspension?
If you understand our point, how could we possibly do that without the risk of you selling it to someone else? I feel like I've asked this 5 times by now but it's really difficult to take your suggestion seriously if we both understand eachother's points yet you will not state in what way you could have genuinely had a better experience if we warned you before a suspension. I do understand this if you were possibly running something very important but that goes back to why you would do that on someone else's account when you understand other potential risks associated with that.
I'm up to about 70% correct, so don't yell.
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Okay so here's what I can propose to potentially help everyone out, and this is just an idea I had and in no way official. I'd just like to hear feedback on it and still need to consider potential issues with it.
Would it be helpful if all accounts that are flagged as having this issue or other issues have a big red message when you log in to the client area informing you that it's pending possible suspension? I feel like I can already see some problems with that, since I assume you won't know until you log in and by that point the scalper already has your money. And we can't just publicly publish a list due to privacy reasons and also again, you probably wouldn't see it until it's too late. Of course this also means every person who sees that immediately opens a ticket asking why, and it causes the same support load eventually as processing all the appeals, and that's before we even decide to do anything. So then they get suspended and then we have to do it all over again.
I'd need more information about the entire process to be able to come up with a better warning system.
I want an Asian server to do vpn because their latency is lower. I said I didn't ask for it, so price and flow are my focus. I learned about vir through the forum because I have never considered transaction risks. So I bought one with a lower renewal price. This can be regarded as the lowest cost for long-term use. Because he can satisfy me without paying a high fee. You asked me why I didn't buy it directly? Because there is no one, it is out of stock. The Japanese machine of 8.8 stopped when I found that I knew vir. There is no replenishment. Do you want to know who I am? TK: #743940 I sent a complaint, but you didn't reply to me. In fact, I was almost the first to come here, because I wanted to figure out what was going on. If possible, I really hope I can repay this vps. Its discount put me in a trap. I don't even hesitate to come here and talk to you for so long. I don't want to give it up.
My advice is go get a refund from the scalper. You paid $30 for a service you used for 3 days. That doesn't sound smart.
Let me explain it more clearly. First,When you release such plan with discount( Tokyo) I didn't know that and I am quite not believe you because you already have a lot of complains about your service in LET. Second, one day I found I need a server in Japan meanwhile with gooe network,and I heard that your server( Tokyo) is good but there is no such plan again.So I decided to purchase one from others.
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And there is one thing,how do you judge whether a man is your customer or just scalper?I am definitely not a scalper,you can check my account info.If some customers like me buy your server in need,but one day he doesn't need it any more so he decides to sell to another guy.Is he a scalper?No.He once to be your real customer and now he just dosen't need it.So he can't transfer his service to another guy?
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which means the crackdown is not thorough enough.
unfortunately viramch doesn't have the time to bust all abusers at once.
Then use the official way to transfer a service, maybe by opening a ticket, instead of selling the whole account.
The real scalpers should have multiple accounts and purchase servers and sold them frequently. That is what I think scalpers to be like.
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That is the definition, if not done through official channels - even if it takes months to process (sorry Virmach!)
See above.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
Okay, so if I understand correctly then, and with the added ticket information:
You purchased, 3 days ago, a service that is $4.57 a year and renews in the next couple months for $30 one-time fee. It has 640MB of RAM and 1TB bandwidth, with 15GB disk, but what's most important for VPN is the 1TB bandwidth. So technically, it should not be any different to you if it's only 384MB RAM but perhaps your specific setup and OS requires more. I can see that you bought this about 7 days ago, which is pretty close to your story, which is very unfortunately, because you purchased this exactly on the same day that I flagged this account. And also the person you purchased it from was directly involved with the other issues I described. It actually looks like this happened within 3 hours of eachother, so you're very unlucky.
Good news is that your appeal included this information and you were honest, so there's a possibly we may be able to help without causing further problems by lying, which most other people did. I'm sure if anyone is reading this they may consider being truthful as well but that also means people will use that maliciously, so you basically made it at the right time for it to be considered at least somewhat genuine.
Anyway, to confirm, you are saying if this was on our site for $4.57 per year plus $30 setup fee with 1TB bandwidth, for your use case, you would have made that purchase directly?
So the market rate over 2 years would be $19.57 per year, and that would have essentially been very close to our advertised price. But 5 years would be $10.57 per year, and you originally would have wanted the $8.88 special. I guess it's difficult to calculate how long you believed you would have kept the service for but surely you also potentially evaluates the other risks associated with it? I mean you don't even have a guarantee that the annual price won't change. I'm not saying it will, just that as a customer that's something you don't know 100%
Short version: your appeal may have a chance, pending other checks when I get to your ticket. And I'll consider making price modifications so others don't end up getting encouraged to use scalpers by perhaps shifting Tokyo additional fee to be non-reoccuring.
About the account selling I have nothing to say,I confirm this behavior is not good.But you also mentioned that the transfer may last months because the poor support.To some degree this have caused the fact that so many guys choose to purchase directly rather than transfer by Official ways. Let's finished this and talk my question again.Do you really think It's a good way to suspend service without early alert?This is my first time among so many providers
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Yes! Empathically and the only way. The reasons have already been explained thoroughly.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
We can't properly differentiate between a scalper and unofficial "customer" because the system is not built to be able to support that scenario, nor could it be, since scalpers can then just pretend to be customers. There's a few ways in some scenarios where we can tell. Even if you aren't a scalper, that is not the issue. If I believed you were 100% a scalper we would not even be having this discussion. The account is still technically not officially yours, nor just yours at all times, so it goes based off the entire history.
So any breach of ToS can be enforced for what anyone who had control of the account did on it.
I still haven't heard from you on how much you paid for yours I don't think, or when you made the purchase from the scalper, would you like to share that information?
They'd potentially be a scalper if they're selling it above MSRP and more importantly, unless it's officially documented, situations such as this one arise. So if the customer transfers it and makes a profit, that's fine, and perhaps based on other factors it could be considered an investment they made rather than intentional scalping. Still, if the customer instead normally cancels the service, and doesn't try to profit, then that space goes to someone else at similar price or at least most likely a lower price in another sale, so in that case, based on the nature, it's basically still scalping. The scalping part or economics of it is not the sole problem and it probably to some degree is not the biggest problem.
But if they do it by just changing the information over, then that means all the account history is shared and the future owner is now associated with all past negative events on the account.
You do realize though, that all these accounts are associated with multiple accounts and are purchased and sold frequently? So how exactly do we have a cut-off for when it's OK when it was never OK to begin with to have multiple accounts or giving account credentials to others unofficially?
That's honestly way more generous than I would've expected, and if no one actually takes you up on this, I'd think that the entire scalper's market is basically unsalvageable. How do you convert people that would rather pay a scalper $30+ than set up their own legit account when they aren't even willing to save their account AND keep their deal by going legit?
In this industry provider suspend the service first and give you chance to fix the problem ( with notification )... This is because maybe your server got hacked and you are on vacation traveling on another country; so any second your server is online and hacked, affect all neighbors. I don't see your point really.
I can say that sure, to some degree it could have potentially caused it but realistically, no. We can wok on the part where we change the pricing and availability of plans to discourage it from there being a need for it but even with our best effort there will always be times where it's not immediately available, especially if no one cancels and holds onto it to resell.
In this case? Yes, it's a very good idea for several reasons. In all cases? No, and we don't do that.
You have to realize that per our terms of service and how things work, this is essentially either a case of an account being potentially hacked or someone having multiple accounts. If a single account abuses, which they have, it means all linked accounts can be suspended without notice.
And again, one of the reasons it's a terrible idea to buy from scalpers.
You have to understand these things are a normal occurrence, every day. Because people do that. Only in this specific scenario is it seen as abnormal by you since it was never intended that accounts be split off in this way, for good reason. Plenty of people have multiple accounts and the second they do something illegal on one, we go and check for all accounts and suspend them for the exact same reason. Because they essentially are the same person/entity.
You basically chose to associate yourself with all these other people and as a result you unfortunately are held accountable in proxy because we can only treat it as what it really is, which is an account that's not really yours, so if the original owners did something on other services, they are responsible on all their accounts.
(edit) Even worse, should someone commit a really heinous crime on their service, guess what happens when there is an official legal request? You get included in the report. It's just such a bad idea for so many different reasons, we are only getting into it at a very basic level.
I still haven't heard from you on how much you paid for yours I don't think, or when you made the purchase from the scalper, would you like to share that information?
I bought this in 9.14,and paid for it 15 dollars approximately.
And let me conclude again:
1.I admit selling/purcahse account is not good.But to some degree it's because your poor transfer service.And actually nobody wants to do this if all conditions are met.
2.I am not a scalper and I came here not for getting my service back, While I came here just want to tell you: in my opinion suspend service without early alert is not good.no matter you approve it or not.
3.I gave you my advice but you ignored it and you subconsciously thank I'm a scalper, I just want my services back. It's kind of insulting.
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I couldn't keep quiet because I strongly disagreed with the name abuser, and I didn't overuse resources, not now, not in the future. I have never abused the services of any provider. However, I violated tos, because one person can only have one account, I am willing to pay the fine and collect all the servers into one account.
What part of this gives you the idea that I think you're a scalper?
And what exactly is your advice here? I've heard about how you think there should be some advanced notice before a suspension. Which I thoroughly understand, and responded to and did not ignore. It's already done, I can't go back and give you additional notice, and I've considered it and requested more information on how you would envision it.
So in your case, $8.88 in 6 months or so renewal, and then $15 one-time. Over 2 years, pro-rated, that's $14.16 per year. Over 5 years, that's $10.99 per year. Okay, thanks for the information. I've changed our pricing to where instead of being +$1/MO +$10/YR +$18/2YR for Tokyo, it's now just a $10 setup fee. This may change again in the future but it works out to the following for both of these two situations.
$4.57 per year + $30
2 Year: $19.57
5 Year: $10.57
$8.88 per year + $15 (Half year already used)
2 Year: $14.16
5 Year: $10.99
Old official site - $15 per year + $10/YR
2 Year: $25
5 Year: $25
Official site - $15 per year + $10 Setup
2 Year: $20
5 Year: $17
Yes it's still more expensive but there's also coupons that come and go but you can consider the extra $5 a year the "will actually get to use it and not get suspended for breaching ToS and being associated with several other problematic customers" fee. I actually don't know if we have a 30% coupon active for it, I'd have to look but we usually do and that'd change it to $14 for 2 year and $11.90 which is effectively very similar.
This is until someone figures out a way to use this change to their advantage and ruins it for everyone and we have to just change it back.
They can't pay 3$ transfer fee, they will cut corners even for 0.5$
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
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@VirMach
Your latest actions, patience and responses have genuinely impressed me.
I totally understand the frustrations of the people buying off scalpers however as stated a number of times, your contract / TOS is with the original purchaser (scalper) and is not associated with the current user.
From my perspective, the real problem was accepting the original purchaser and the frustrations / suspensions / abuse / workload are the natural outcome.
So you need to really concentrate on the sign up process (as I am sure you know).
Obviously as a company you need to grow and get more customers but these customers need to be 'trustworthy' and follow the rules. So why don't you focus more on the customers you can verify e.g. do provide proper address matched with payment method, reputable email (not a throw away).
I know this will not erradicate the problem completely however it will certainly reduce them. It would reduce your overall sales initially but by providing a more reliable, reponsive service, more customers would come directly to you in the longer term.
BTW I feel avoiding the OGF is also a good move.
Keep doing what you are doing - you have my support (not that it means much).
When entitled abusers can't accept what they have done is wrong, then just piss off and get a life/legit. You deliberately circumvented official channels so take the punishment.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
please check below
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here
Are you serious?
**
1.That's OK. Whatever the final result is,I still have to say:What you did is not good.You can set a deadline, require people provide more details to prove that they didn't violate your TOS.And then take actions.But you didn't, while suspended customer's service directly. It's a shame-
2.One more thing,plz modified your SUSPENSION APPEAL FORM template. Current template you just require customers answer questions While most questions have nothing to do with this cleanup.If you need customers provide more personal infos to prove he didn't violate TOS, please give your requirement clear. While not publish your announcement about this cleanup in Lowendscript forum. Again,you didn't notify your customers about this cleanup and why.**
I think I already gave my feedback here.But you ignored what I said above.Not a big deal here.I won't reply again.
When I give my feedback，what are you doing？Just ignored it and then ask me give some constructive feedback
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I don't know how it translates for you but generally someone who breaks AUP is called an abuser since there was abuse or misuse of the service. If you're actually claiming that you also did not break the AUP, you clearly are only lying to yourself at this point. It's very clear that your usage levels are not within the acceptable levels.
It doesn't help that for some reason you still believe we're at a point where you can continue lying about what you're doing in your appeals, embarrassing yourself, giving me second hand embarrassment, and it also doesn't help that you're replying with more outlandish claims. You can't just keep pretending it's only slightly worse in little modifications in hopes of getting a reduced punishment. That only shows you're not capable of being totally honest and in your case, even if you were, your plan for just slightly reducing the usage will not work because you are also clearly using your services in ways that are not intended, specifically because it will always cause problems.
I did warn you not to reply, but since you have, and not only that, used it as an opportunity to continue spreading lies, now I have to go through your accounts and thoroughly show you and everyone why your claims are false and that just means you continue to bring attention to yourself. It seems like you're interested in making sure that I find more of your abusive services, and won't stop until every single one is suspended. If that's not your end goal then you're approaching the matter in a terrible way.
Also you should consider maybe not using the same name and profile on HostLoc and if you're going to publicly post about every time you do or don't get caught, realize that first of all that's not usually a good idea. In this case it didn't really change anything, but I do also see you spreading lies and bending our words to make us look as if we're doing something way worse. When you tell your little followers that we're charging $25 and leave out all the context, and that we'll just keep the money essentially in all cases and not do anything about it, when you yourself have already had several chances to actually use the system for free and instead decided to not be truthful which makes it difficult to assist you.
How exactly do you propose any situation where you walk away from this being able to continue using the services for what you're actually doing, instead of every time you reply back and say "website"
Do you know how many times I pitied you and decided to be nice about it and the chances you got to actually follow our AUP? You really believe that I didn't already know all those accounts were you? No, I did, and I tried to give you multiple chances. Instead any time I let you walk away and improve, you took it as an opportunity to believe you had somehow "tricked" us into unsuspending your service and learned nothing.
Once again.Arrogant.
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